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Complaints filed

JIIMZ Quest for eBays Prohibition of the Hoodia SSP.

ATTORNEY GENERAL COMPLAINT Filed on : September 13 2006

This is the first of 28 auction listings removed emails i received from july 8th to sept 5th

Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 16:32:35 PDT
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eBay sent this message to James Irwin (jiimz).
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eBay Listing Removed: Animals, Plants and Wildlife (=PS &amp;12363 JM12703235)-------------------
Dear jiimz,
**PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**
We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following listing(s):
250006003043 - 6" HOODIA GORDONII SUCCULLENT APPETITE SUPPRESANT #36a
250006003060 - 10 FRESH HOODIA GORDONII SEEDS POT SOIL
However, your listing(s) violates eBay's Animals, Plants and Wildlife policy and has been removed.

n accordance with our User Agreement, items prohibited by law or by eBay policy are not allowed on

eBay. We have credited all associated fees to your account and notified eBay users associated with the

transaction that it has been cancelled.
Since the sale of live animals and wildlife products is in some cases prohibited, highly regulated, or may

cause harm to eBay or its members, sellers are restricted in their listing of them on eBay.
Endangered or protected species, or any part of any endangered or protected species may not be listed

on eBay.
For more information on Animals, Plants and Wildlife visit the following Help page:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/wildlife.html>
Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits

on account privileges and account suspension.
Please review eBay's Prohibited and Restricted Items guidelines and User Agreement at the following locations:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html>
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html>
For more information on why eBay removeslistings, or to write to us with questions, please review the following

Web page:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/listing-ended.html>
We thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Regards, eBay Trust & Safety
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1st ebay response

Dear James,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the removal of your Hoodia
plants. I carefully reviewed your listings and determined that they were removed
correctly. Endangered or protected species, or any part of any
endangered or protected species may not be listed on eBay.
eBay no longer permits Hoodia type plants to be sold on the site.
According to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered
Species(CITES) of Wild Fauna and Flora, these plants are endangered.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter. I wish you continued
success selling on eBay. Sincerely, Jasyn eBay Customer Support
Original Message Follows:-------------------------
Form Message %43253% 062699
D_ID070820062345D_ID/W_ID71351372W_ID/S_ID000S_ID
Subject: CW%X10050 Listing Ended Prohibited Item [#US A22 30288T ?01 ]
User Feedback: 3747
User State: ?01
Browser Info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0)
Home > Help > Transaction Problems and Protections > What eBay Can
Do > Why eBay May End Your Listing
Message: 2items were removed by ebay which i have been auctioning for
over5years&no reason given other than ebay policy. i would appreciate a
call explaining the reason for these removals 760-751-8375 jim
#250006003043
#250006003060

=============================================================================

my response 7/9/06

i beleive you are wrong i am not selling them internationally read your statement carfully( according to the convention on

(international trade) and i stress the words international trade.....these are grown raised and sold within the

united states borders which does not require cites certification thats is only when exporting to other countries. what about

the thousands of auctions for hoodia gordonii diet pills those people are cutting them up and eating them i am growing them

and selling them alive not depleating their stock.

----- Original Message -----

From: "eBay Customer Support" <rswebhelp@ebay.com <mailto:rswebhelp@ebay.com>>

To: "Jim Irwin" <jiimz@nethere.com <mailto:jiimz@nethere.com>>

Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 6:47 PM

Subject: Re: EN62827 PI Response to your email concerning eBay's ended listing policies.. (KMM219760143V96029L0KM)

================================================================================

=========================

ebay response 7/10/06

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your removed hoodia plant
listing.
While you are growing your own plants and not depleting the numbers of
hoodia plants, we still do not allow these to be sold on the site. I'm
sorry if this directly affects your business.
If you feel that our policies should be changed, feel free to submit a
suggestion to improve our site. Many of the changes made on the site
are due to suggestions received from our eBay Members. While we are
unable to implement every suggestion, we do review all of the
suggestions we receive.
You can send your suggestions by clicking on the following link:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/newtoebay/suggest.html>
Then click on one of the two options: - Send us your suggestion to improve the eBay site. OR
- Send us your suggestion to add a new category.
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this email and let us know.
Sincerely, Marino eBay Customer Support

====================================================================================

sent to ebay 7/13*06

Home > Help > Transaction Problems and Protections > What eBay Can Do > Why eBay May End Your Listing

Message: hello
there are many other cactus and succulents and other plants,fauna that are listed in cites why are the hoodia being

selected prohibited from the ebay auctions for instance the orchid is on the cites list and there are as many as 2000

listings at any given time are they exempt for some reason. how about the golden barrel cactus and the saguaro cactus

ust to name a few all cites listed? i just would like to be treated fair and for some reason it seems that there may be

some discrepancy the way the prohibited items are being selected. i have sold thousands of different items on ebay over

the last 7 years and it has not been easy trying to keep up to the standards/99.98% feedback of a power seller all these

years. it has been an uphill battle all the way and i felt like i was a part of your organization and now i feel as though i have

been abandoned without any real explanation. sure im only a little silver power seller makeing minimum wage if that. i only

ask that i be given !
the answer to why or what has prompted this sudden prohibition and why it isnt being applied to other items such as i mention
thanks in advance jiimz ebay power seller

======================================================================================

received ebay 7/16/06
Dear jiimz,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the removal of your auctions for
Hoodia plants.
The only information we have at this time is that these particular items
are identified as endangered plants in CITES, and are therefore
prohibited on eBay. As such, we will remove any auction for hoodia
plants from the site if listed, regardless of who has listed them. You
can be assured that you are not being discriminated against in this
issue.
Please know that we are also not doubting your expertise in this area,
and we are not ignoring your exceptional record with us over the years;
it has just been determined that this particular type of plant may no
longer be sold on the eBay platform. I sincerely apologize for the
inconvenience this may cause, but greatly appreciate your understanding
and cooperation going forward.
Thanks again for taking the time to speak with us. If you need further
assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this email and let us
know.
Sincerely, Del eBay Customer Support
Original Message Excluded:

====================================

ebay 7/17/06

Message: can you please tell me why the hoodia plant is being singled
out when all cactus, succulents, orchids and many many other plants
being auctioned on ebay are not affected by this rule including diet
pills which are claiming to be pure hoodia powder im not importing or
exporting so why is it prohibited i have reported numerous items that
are cites listed but they are still on auction just would like to know
why hoodia is the only succulent you prohibiting
thanks jim
============================================================
from ebay 7/18/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your items that were ended for
being in violation of our animals and wildlife policy.
I understand your frustration and would like to address your concerns.
Hoodia plants are referred to within the CITES Appendices as
endangered: <http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml>.
Therefore, they are not allowed on our site. Thank you for using eBay
for your online trading needs.
Sincerely, Anisa eBay Customer Support

============================================================

reply to ebay 7/18/06
hello jasyn
according to the cites information the hoodia is listed as nt not
threatened. also cites listed are all orchids, which over 2000 are
curently
listed on ebay, all cactus, succulents plus hundreds if not thousands of
other plants all cites listed currently being auctioned on ebay and also
thousands of products containing parts from cites listed plants being
sold
on ebay. i dont want them all removed because they are all legally being
sold in this free country we live in whether cites listed or not, but
according to what you call ebay policy any item identified as endangered
plants in CITES, are therefore prohibited on eBay. there seems to be a
large
discrepancie toward this policy i would guess to the tune of over 3 to 4
thousand item that would meet ebay criteria of any item identified as
endangered plants in CITES i guess thats quite a chunk of change in megs
pocket ching/ching . i am 100% infavor of cites but it's purpose is to
regulate the import and export of endangered species in their country of
origin. The hoodia is not threaten at this time but forbidden on ebay,
the
golden barrel is almost nearly extinct from its native mexico and cites
listed but sold daily on ebay. if you want to buy some of the worlds
most
endangered plants and fauna the're all on ebay today. my big question
why
the hoodia?? your previous answer because its cites listed seems out of
place as it isnt being applied to the thousands of other cited listed
plants
and fauna. i would like to know if the hoodia is being removed because
it is
a hoodia or because it is cites listed and if the latter why are all the
other cite listed items being ignored and you can't say because you dont
know about them because i have reported many of them in the past week
and
none have been removed. If you are unable to answer my concerns please
advise me who might be able to.

thanks in advance jim

==========================================================
from ebay

Dear Jim,
Thank you for continuing correspondence with us. My name is Brewster and
I'd be happy to assist you further.
Jim, I have reviewed your removed item again and determined it was
correctly removed.
As per previous email from Jasyn , "eBay no longer permits Hoodia type
plants to be sold on the site.
According to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered
Species(CITES) of Wild Fauna and Flora, these plants are endangered."
That said, we must respectfully request that you please refrain from
listing this particular item on the site going forward. I sincerely
apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
For information on eBay's policies regarding Animals and Wildlife
Products, please view:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/wildlife.html>
With regard to your concern about other listings you may see on the site
that are similar to yours, I understand your position. Let me assure
you that you are not being targeted or discriminated against, and that
we value having you as a member.
The Community Watch Team understands there are auctions currently
running on the site that are in violation of our listing policies or
guidelines. Please understand that with over 1 million active listings
at any given time, it is not always feasible for us to be aware of all
violating listings within the time frame of some auctions. I know this
may not seem fair because these listings are live on the site, however,
during our search for listing policy violations, or when members like
yourself report these listings and bring them to our attention, we fully
investigate each report. Listings that are found to be in violation of
our policies are dealt with appropriately, and repeated offences are
dealt with appropriately.
To submit a report to us, please do so through the following link:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/index.html>
Jim, It's important that you do not treat the action taken on your
listings personally, but rather as an informational alert to make you
aware of our policies. While it may not be immediate or obvious, other
sellers who are engaging in listing practices which violate our policies
will eventually have similar action taken.
I can understand your frustration with this situation. Each auction is
reviewed based on the information contained within the listing itself.
There are times when you may know what the seller is listing, however,
since we do not possess or examine the items listed for sale, we are
restricted to judging the auctions based solely on the information
contained within the auction text and the pictures provided. As such, we
do not remove items unless they are plainly prohibited by our policies
based on information from the auction.
Please be assured that each auction you report is reviewed and a
decision is then made based on the evidence in the auction whether or
not the item is in plain violation of our policies.
We thank you in advance for your cooperation, and wish you luck with
your future eBay transactions.If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely,
Brewster

=============================================================

from ebay7/19/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the sale of Hoodia plants.
eBay works closely with government agencies and organizations with
regard to what may be sold on the site. Hoodia has recently been
brought to our attention as a concern by such agencies. I have
escalated this matter to our management team. Unfortunately, we are not
experts on this subject, and I do not have any further information on
why this item is prohibited.
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely, Cherie eBay Customer Support
Original Message Excluded:

============================================================

from ebay 7/18/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the sale of Hoodia plants.
eBay works closely with government agencies and organizations with
regard to what may be sold on the site. Hoodia has recently been
brought to our attention as a concern by such agencies. I have
escalated this matter to our management team. Unfortunately, we are not
experts on this subject, and I do not have any further information on
why this item is prohibited.If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely, Cherie eBay Customer Support
Original Message Excluded:

===========================================================

from ebay 7/19/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the sale of Hoodia plants. My
name is Tony and I'll do my best to explain this policy further for you,
as I have spoken to my Supervisor and have some additional information
for you.
Jim, you are correct that we do not remove every plant listed on cites,
and I'm sorry for the incorrect insinuation that we made. What has
happened with Hoodia specifically is that we were contacted by Cites
requesting that it not be sold on the site. They were receiving
consistent reports with regard to shipping regulations and the decision
was made to prohibit Hoodia entirely on eBay. I realize that what you
are selling is your own stock, and I'm sorry for the disappointment that
this may cause you.
With regard to endangered and threatened animals we are very pro active
with regards to Cites regulations, but we are more relaxed on plants, as
you pointed out. If you see a plant on the site that is particularly
rare or endangered, and you feel should not be sold, please contact us,
as well as Cites and similar enforcement could be taken, as has been
done with Hoodia.
I'm sorry for all the confusion on this matter Jim, hopefully this sheds
some light on it for you however. If you need further assistance, please
don't hesitate to reply to this email and let us know.
Sincerely, Tony Parsons eBay Customer Support

==============================================================
to rbay 7/21/06
HiTony

Thank you for the clarification on this issue. It seems the issue is really concerning the exporting

and importing of the Hoodia without the necessary CITES documentation. I sell only to US not i

nternationally as do all US sellers, which does not affect CITES. I personally called CITES in Switzerland

and The Fish and Wild Life Service in Washington DC and both tell me that they have no concern with domestic

sales and purchases as stated in FWS/DMA PLA 7-17 Domestic sales and purchases (commercial transaction

within the United States) of Hoodia spp.

are not affected by the Appendix-II listing. See letter here <http://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/3-29-06_

Hoodia_Importer-Exporter_letter.pdf> . I have monitored the Hoodia on eBay for over 5 years

and what seems to be the problem is sellers from other countries, Germany, England, and Israel

have been posting auctions with shipping to other countries stating shipping at buyers risk as there

is a chance customs may intercept. With what I have learned in the last two weeks I would now

report the seller to eBay to have the auction removed. Instead of a complete removal of a legal

product with a little education and some community watch I'm sure both CITES and The Fish

And Wild Life Service won't at all mind legal sales of the Hoodia in the US on eBay. I have requested

any correspondence from both agencies with eBay reqarding this matter and if possible would

ike the same from eBay, as I would very much like to read who exactly requested this policy

and what exactly they said to cause such a broad unnecessary ban on a otherwise legal

transaction. Banning a legal item seems the wrong step as it will just make it easier to do the

same thing each time eBay needs to make a similar decision.

Thanks in advance Jim

===========================================================================

from ebay7/21/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the sale of Hoodia plants on the site.
eBay does not directly handle the transactions between buyers and
sellers or the merchandise sold on the site. We are often unable to
verify the items listed or the legality of these transactions. Due to a
recent concern with regard to the sale of Hoodia plants, the decision
was made to prohibit the sale of all Hoodia plants on the site.
Unfortunately, I am unable to release the correspondence information you
requested.
Jim, I appreciate the fact that you may disagree with this recent policy
decision. If you have a suggestion on how to change of improve our
policies, I encourage you to submit your ideas using the link below. We
welcome all suggestions from our members and are always looking for ways
to improve. While you may not see an immediate change, this will ensure
that your suggestion is reviewed by the appropriate department.
You can send your suggestions by clicking on the following link:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/newtoebay/suggest.html>
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely, Cherie eBay Customer Support

==================================================================
to ebay 7/21/06

hello tony parsons
why are you unable to release the correspondence information i requested.
without it i am unable to make the suggestions needed to change or improve
your policies that you encouarage me to make. if you cant supply it and i
get it from whom ever supplied it will you be willing to discuss the thought
of reversing your decision.
thanks jim

==================================================================
from me 7/22/06

I BELIEVE THIS AUCTION WAS INCORRECTLY REMOVED. IT IS ONLY FOR PICTURES OF
PLANTS FROM MY COLLECTION
THIS ITEM:: 250011090385 - 3 RARE HOODIA GORDONII DIGITAL PICS FROM JIIMZ
PLEASE LET ME KNOW REASON
THANKS INADVANCE JIM
===========================================================================

from me

BELIEVE THIS AUCTION WAS INCORRECTLY REMOVED. IT IS ONLY FOR PICTURES OF
PLANTS FROM MY COLLECTION
THIS ITEM:: 260011829263 - 4 RARE HOODIA GORDONII DIGITAL PICS FROM JIIMZ
THANKS INADVANCE JIM
===========================================================================

from ebay 7/22/06 Dear Jim,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your request.
The information you requested is considered internal correspondence. I
am unable to provide you with that information. I apologize for any
inconveniences this may cause you. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely, Cherie eBay Customer Support
Original Message Excluded:
--------------------------
==============================================================================

to ebay 07/22/06

hi cherie
thank you for the response who then may be able to provide me with this
information
thanks jim

==========================================================================

to ebay 08/02/06

hello tony parsons

in regard to your statement ebay was contacted by cites regarding the hoodia i contacted cites in switzerland and talked to mr .morgan

Staff of the CITES Secretariat Scientific Support Unit David Morgan http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/sec/staff.shtml

Chief of Unit +41 (22) 9178123

by telopnone and mr. morgan stated that he had no knowledge of cites contacting ebay and also stated that cites wouldnt

be concerned with curtailing legal sales and would not have contacted ebay. i also contacted the united states department

of the interior fish and wild life service as mr. morgan suggested by phone and talked to Monica Farris
Senior Permit Biologist
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Division of Management Authority
4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Room 700
Arlington, VA 22203
and she also stated that U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has no record of contacting ebay regarding the hoodia. since you

state you were contacted bycites but cites claims differently would you please inform me to which cites organization or

person it was that contacted ebay.

==================================================================================

to ebay 08/02/06

hi cherie
i have spoken to david morgan cites switzerland by phone and he stated cites
has no concerns with ebay sales and knows of no contact on this matter.
could you tell me which cites agency it was that contacted ebay regarding
the removal of the hoodia succulent plant
Scientific Support Unit
David Morgan Chief of Unit +41 (22) 9178123
thanks jim

===========================================================================

Dear Jim,
Thank you for contacting eBay Community Watch in regard to this policy.
If you wish to contact our legal department to get a definite answer,
please send your correspondence to:
eBay Inc.
Attn: Corporate Counsel
2145 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, CA 95125
We appreciate your patience regarding this matter. Thank you for being
part of the eBay community.
Sincerely, knton
eBay Customer Support
_____________________________________________
Whether you're new to eBay or an experienced buyer and seller, the eBay
Security & Resolution Center can help you protect yourself on eBay and
online. For more information, please click the "Security Center" link at
the bottom of most eBay pages.
===========================================================================
from ebay 08/02/06

Dear eBay Member,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the listing which was removed.
We appreciate the information you have provided here. However, please
understand, regardless of who contacted who or the actual persons
involved in the alleged "notification" or how eBay became aware, Hoodia
is referred to in Cites appendages as endangered and we respectfully ask
that you no longer list these items.
<http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml>
Thanks again for writing and thank you for your time.
Sincerely, Jens Bay Trust & Safety

===========================================================================

to ebay 08/04/06

Hello Jens No Hoodia Gordonii which i was selling on ebay is not considered endangered by cites see <http://www.cites.org/common/cop/13/raw_props/BW-NA-ZA-Hoodia.pdf> page 2 , 2.3 population status, it

is clearly listed as not threatened . I visited the link you provided as i have many times in the past and again saw

the hundreds if not thousands of plants and flora cites listed of which a very high amount of them are currently listed

on ebay auctions and stores, which i would assume is against ebay policy since they are cites listed and protected .

I only request to know the specific organization which has brought this action so as to correct all your misinformation

about legal or not legal, endangered or not endangered. so far all ebay responses have been full of misinformation and

would I like to get it all clarified by whom ever brought this to ebays attention. thanks jim

=====================================================================================

from ebay 08/04/06

Dear Jim,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to our Hoodia policy. Tony here
again and I have some further information for you today.
Jim, on your behalf I have escalated this policy to a board made up of
various members of our policy team. It turns out that this entire Hoodia
prohibition stemmed out of an issue with importing and exporting Hoodia
in Australia. We were initially contacted by Austrian Customs. From
there it was brought to our attention that many different types of
Hoodia are endangered and the decision was made to prohibit the sale of
Hoodia on all eBay web sites. I'm sorry for providing you with some what
misleading information before, but the entire reason was not made
available to me until I took it to the board.
Despite the fact that your particular type of Hoodia is not endangered
I'm afraid that it still cannot be listed. As we are not experts on
different specifies of plants, the decision has been made to prohibit
all types of Hoodia. Once again, I am sorry for the disappointment that
I'm sure this causes you.
With regard to other plants on eBay which may be endangered according to
Cites, we are not experts on what is on the Cites list and what is not.
We typically will not start taking action on a product unless contacted
by a Government agency to do so. If you feel that other types of plants
should be prohibited, I suggest that you contact your local law
enforcement agencies. eBay has a longstanding policy of providing full
cooperation with law enforcement agencies and we will gladly assist them
in any investigation of unlawful conduct.
Thank you for your hopeful understanding on this matter Jim. I am once
again sorry for the inconvenience of not being able to sell Hoodia on
the site. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply
to this email and let us know.
Sincerely, ony Parsons
eBay Customer Support
===================================================================

to ebay 8/05/06

hello tony

thank you for the clarification on this issue which has been costly to me in

both time and money even to the point of loosing my powerseller status

and a hunk of change in listing fees and long distance phone bills mostly

because of mis information from ebays customer support members. Now

you state the entire Hoodia prohibition stemmed out of an issue with importing

and exporting Hoodia in Australia which i must repeat my sales are US ONLY i

do not import or export, see <http://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/3-29-06_Hoodia_

Importer- Exporter_letter.pdf>. as stated in paragraph 3 (Domestic sales and purchases

(commercial transactions within the United States) of Hoodia spp. are not affected by

the Appendix-II listing.) as stated by cites.

As you stated, "we are not experts on
different specifies of plants, the decision has been made to prohibit
all types of Hoodia." Well then if you choose to prohibit all hoodia because you are

not experts and hoodia are succulents then you should also prohibit all succulents

which are all cites I or II protected and all succulents are cactus and all cactus are

I or II cites protected and all cactus and succulents are plants and almost all plants

are also I or II cites protected therefore you should prohibit all plants also. Heres a

ebay link to 136 rare orchids listed on ebay, All orchids are classified as belonging to

either Appendix I or II of CITES Regulations <http://home.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?

sofocus=unknown&sbrftog=1&from=R10&catref=C6&

satitle=rare+orchid&sacat=2032%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&ftrt=1&ftrv=

1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=>

here is a link to 1311 cactus listed in ebay all cites I or II listed <http://home.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=unknown&sbrftog=1&from=R10&catref=C12&satitle

=cactus&sacat=2032%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&sa

prchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp>=

heres a link for 763 Succulents all cites I orII <http://home.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=unknown&sbrftog=1&fr

om=R10&catref=C6&satitle=succulent&sacat=2032%26catref%3DC6&bs=Sear

ch&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fs

oo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp>=

do a search for Hoodia and you get 1347 items found for hoodia see link <http://home.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=unknown&sbrftog=1&from=R10&catref=C6&satitle=

hoodia&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fso

o%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp>=

so if just one item of each of the four categories ive mentioned were brought to your attention

as endangered you would have to remove over 3,000 listings because your not experts?? which

could add up to a lot of out of pocket change for meg and some unhappy ebayers. according to

what you have done to the hoodia

which was only a small handfull of auctions never more than 10 or 12 auctions at a time on most

days and 3/4 of them were mine and all one type the hoodia gordonii, which makes me think you

choose to brush the hoodia aside, instead of realizing it is perfectly legal as all hoodia are appendix

II and whether endangered or not threatened, Domestic sales and purchases (commercial transactions

within the United States) of Hoodia spp. are not affected by the Appendix-II listing. I have

personally talked to CITES in Switzerland and they have no concerns with this matter

especially stated with ebays bussiness.

Also I have been told buy ebay support if i thought something was illegal i should report it through

the link on the auction which i have done many times to test your system and to no avail, but now

you state i need to go to law enforcement, which law enforcement agency do you suggest i should

contact? as there are some hoodia listed on ebay as of this writing. do you think there is any law

enforcement agency if provided the information i have provided you, that would take action against

a perfectly legal transaction. If some one is doing something ilegal they should be alerted but if not

illegal which in my case was perfectly legal should not be penalized.

I believe by ebays course of action with this matter it sets a path for the removal of thousands of

legal auctions and I will continue to pursue a reversal in what i consider an unjust decision especially

whithout all the facts at the time.

again thanks for the truth after 3 + hard weeks tony

==============================================================

to ebay 08/06/06

why then do you allow these auctions
Item numbers:
250015615005,250015610587,250015610509,250015610458,250015610661,25001561026
3
and then tell me i cant list them why are you restricting me and not
others these all sold today please let me know whats going on i only want
to be treated equally like everone else
thanks jim
==========================================================================

from ebay 08/17/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the prohibition of Hoodia on our
site.
Jim, eBay works closely with government agencies and organizations with
regard to what may be listed on the site. We have recently been
contacted with concerns about the sale of the Hoodia cactus. This plant
is currently listed on the CITES Appendices as endangered. The sale of
this plant may be highly regulated or even prohibited by law in some
areas. As such, the decision was made to prohibit the sale of Hoodia
plants at this time. For more information, please click on the
following link:
<http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml>
You can find Hoodia listed under Flora (Plants).
Thank you for the link with information about Hoodia but at this time we
have not yet received any information from our legal department to
permit Hoodia on our site.
Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any additional questions
or concerns. We thank you in advance for your cooperation, and wish you
luck with your future eBay transactions Jim!
Sincerely,
James Vanostrand
eBay Customer Support
Original Message Follows:
====================================================================

8/17/06

from me

Click here
<http://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/3-29-06_Hoodia_Importer-Exporter_letter.pdf>
for Hoodia Status with Cites and United States Department of Interior
Fish And Wild Life Service
"Domestic sales and purchases (commercial transactions within the United
States) of Hoodia spp. are not affected by the Appendix-II listing." why
then are these two auctions illegal on ebay

========================================================================

from me 8/17/06

hi checked the cites link before and on it are thousands of other plants now
listed on ebay that are on the list and endangered for instance orchids are
cites listed??

============================================================================

from ebay 8/17/06

Dear eBay Member,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to questionable items listed on the
site.
We understand your concern regarding questionable items which are or may
have been listed on eBay. Please keep in mind, eBay is only a venue. We
do not list the items for sale on the site and therefore, we are not
always aware of every listing on the site. This is why the User
Agreement, which all members accept when registering to use eBay
services, requires members to research any applicable policies and laws
before listing items on the site. Just as your listing was on the site
and visible to other members for a period of time, you may see similar
items. We do remove listings in violation of policy as soon as we are
aware of them.
To refer listings with possible violations of eBay policy, you are
welcome to use the webform. This will allow eBay to review the item and
take appropriate action. The webform can be found at the following eBay
Help page:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_us/_base/index.html>
In addition, near the bottom of every listing page, there is a link to
report the item if there are possible violations of eBay policy.
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely, Jens Bay Trust & Safety

=======================================================================

from ebay 8/18/06

Dear James,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to our policies regarding the sale
of Hoodia plants on our site. My name is Qubert and I'd be happy to help
explain.
You see, James, there are some policies that we implement that are a
little more strict than external laws or regulations. If there is an
issue that we feel is more sensitive to our community or we foresee a
potential issue with a product, we will often create policy to preempt
any trouble that may ensue.
In this case, Hoodia plants have appeared on the CITES Appendices as
endangered and their sale is now being strictly monitored. We have
created our policy help preserve this species and, consequently, reflect
the interests of our global community.
At this time, James, I must respectfully ask that you refrain from
listing any Hoodia plants on the site in the future. If you need further
assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this email and let us
know.Sincerely, Qubert
eBay Customer Support
================================================================================

to ebay 8/18/06

hi qubert you state Hoodia plants have appeared on the CITES Appendices as endangered and their sale is

now being strictly monitored. Why then are you allowing the sale of all the other cites listed plants on ebay

just to mention orchids as one example there are thousands of them listed every day and orchid plants have

appeared on the CITES Appendices also. Your policy you have created is not in any way helping to preserve

this specias which is listed in cites as NT not threatened. If you want to preserve the hoodia you should also

remove all the hoodia diet pills and alixrs now listed on ebay also. And again i submit to you this statement from

cites "Domestic sales and purchases (commercial transactions within the United States) of Hoodia spp.

are not affected by the Appendix-II listing." i have personally called cites in switzerland and was told by

Mr. Morgan they have no concerns with the legal domestic sells of any hoodia on ebay (CITES Scientific Support Unit
David Morgan Chief of Unit +41 (22) 9178123)

Sincerely, jim
===============================================================================

from ebay 8/19/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to other CITES plants you see on
the site and the hoodia plant.
I can fully understand the frustration that may occur when having an
auction ended. I do want to assure you that your listing fees have been
refunded to your account. I do not want you worrying about this.
With regard to why other listings you may see on the site that are
listed in a similar fashion to yours are still listed, I understand your
position. Let me assure you that you are not being targeted or
discriminated against, Jim, and that we value having you as a member.
Please understand that with over 1 million active listings at any given
time, it is not always feasible for us to be aware of all violating
listings within the time frame of some auctions. I know this may not
seem fair because these listings are live on the site, however, during
our search for listing policy violations, or when members like yourself
report these listings and bring them to our attention, we fully
investigate each report. Listings that are found to be in violation of
our policies are dealt with appropriately.
It's important that you do not treat the action taken on your listings
personally, but rather as an informational alert to make you aware of
our policies. While it may not be immediate or obvious, other sellers
who are engaging in listing practices which violate our policies will
eventually have similar action taken.
If you wish to report items that you feel are in violation of this or
any other policy, please use the following link:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/index.html>
Now, in regard to your second question, I am not sure with whom you were
in contact with but eBay works closely with government agencies and
organizations with regard to what may be listed on the site. We have
recently been contacted with concerns about the sale of the Hoodia
cactus. This plant is currently listed on the CITES Appendices as
endangered. The sale of this plant may be highly regulated or even
prohibited by law in some areas. As such, the decision was made to
prohibit the sale of Hoodia plants at this time. For more information,
please click on the following link:
<http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml>
You can find Hoodia listed under Flora (Plants).
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely,
Molly Thompson
eBay Customer Support

==============================================================================

to ebay8/19/06

hello molly

again i submit to you this
statement from cites "Domestic sales and purchases (commercial
transactions within the United States) of Hoodia spp. are not affected
by the Appendix-II listing." i have personally called cites in
switzerland and was told by Mr. Morgan they have no concerns with the
legal domestic sells of any hoodia on ebay (CITES Scientific Support
Unit
David Morgan Chief of Unit +41 (22) 9178123)
Sincerely, jim
================================================================================

from ebay 8/20/06

Dear David,
Thank you for writing eBay again in regard to Hoodia plants.
This policy has been handed down from our legal department, David, so if
you wish to contact our legal department about this issue further, I
would like to direct you to please send your correspondence to:
eBay Inc.
Attn: Corporate Counsel
2145 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, CA 95125
Legal will have clearer answers as to why this policy has been decided.
If you need further assistance, David, please don't hesitate to reply to
this email and let me know.
Sincerely,
Molly Thompson
eBay Customer Support

==============================================================================

to ebay 8/25/06

hello

this item was already removed how is it that you have removed it again 6 minutes later in red is the first removal

in blue is the second removal Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:06:01 PDT
eBay sent this message to James Irwin (jiimz).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay.
Learn more: <http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html>
eBay Listing Removed: Animals, Plants, and Wildlife (=PS &amp;12363 JM13579549)
Dear jiimz,
Thank you for your recent eBay Stores listing. You listed the following item:
260014354193 - 100 FRESH HOODIA GORDONII SEEDS DIET SUCCULENT

----- Original Message ----- From: ended@ebay.com <mailto:ended@ebay.com> To: jiimz@nethere.com

<mailto:jiimz@nethere.com> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:12 PM Subject: eBay Listing Removed: Animals,

Plants, and Wildlife (=PS &12363 JM13579549)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:12:48 PDT-----------------------------------------------------------------
eBay sent this message to James Irwin (jiimz).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay.
Learn more: <http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html>
eBay Listing Removed: Animals, Plants, and Wildlife (=PS &amp;12363 JM13579549)
Dear jiimz,Thank you for your recent eBay Stores listing. You listed the following item:
260014354193 - 100 FRESH HOODIA GORDONII SEEDS DIET SUCCULENT
Unfortunately, eBay removed your eBay Stores listing. All fees related to this listing have been credited to your account.

We also notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has
been canceled.The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Animals, Plants, and Wildlife policy. The sale of this

item may also be prohibited by law.
The sale of live animals and wildlife products may be prohibited by law, regulated, or harmful to the Community. For this

reason, eBay allows the sale of live animals and wildlife products only under very specific, limited conditions.eBay does

not permit the listing of noxious weeds and prohibited seeds on the site.
For more information on Animals, Plants, and Wildlife visit the following Help page:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/wildlife.html>
Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account

privileges and account suspension.
To review eBay's list of Prohibited, Questionable, and Infringing items, please visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html>
To learn more about why eBay may remove eBay Stores listings, please go to:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/listing-ended.html>
To review the eBay User Agreement, visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html>
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely, eBay Trust & Safety

=====================================================================

to ebay 8/25/06

please explain how this auction was removed twice whithin 6 minutes 260024822260 - Carrion Plant Stapelia Gigantea

Hoodia First Aid Plant ??????

================================================================================

to ebay 8/26/06

hi jens if listing my live hoodia gordoni plants is forbidden on ebay can i then list in health and beauty my Hoodia Gordonii Sun

Dried Weightloss Chips, which i am currently selling locally . i see there are 1318 items found for hoodia in that category examples:

Item number: 280019831291hoodia juice, Item number: 120023393687 BODYWISE HOODIA WEIGHT LOSS CHEWS -

BAG OF 30 , Item number: 130018669631Power-Pops w/ Hoodia (one bag 30 pops) Pina Colada. thanks

jim 760-751-8375

================================================================================

from ebay 8/26/06

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:52:51 PDT
-----------------------------------------------------------------
eBay sent this message to James Irwin (jiimz).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay.
Learn more: <http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
eBay Listing Removed: Keyword Spamming (=LS &amp;12362 JM67611750)
Dear jiimz,
Thank you for your recent auction-style listing. You listed the following item:
260025370024 - Carrion Plant Stapelia Gigantea not hoodia
Unfortunately, eBay removed your listing. All fees related to this listing have been credited to your account. We also notified

members who placed bids on the item that the listing has been canceled.
The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Keyword Spamming policy. The violation occurred when you included

the following information in your listing:
IN TITLE: Carrion Plant Stapelia Gigantea not hoodia
IN DESCRIPTION:Carrion Plant Scientific Name: Stapelia gigantea N.E. Br.
Synonym: Stapelia nobilisFamily: Asclepiadaceae
eBay doesn't permit keyword spamming. Sellers can't place brand names or other inappropriate keywords in a title or description

to gain attention or direct members to a listing. The listing's searchable text, including the title, needs to relate directly to the item for sale.
Sellers aren't allowed to make comparisons to different items or brand names in their listing title. For this reason, sellers can't use certain

comparison words such as "like," "style," and "not."
***Example***
The following titles are not permitted:
- Shirt not Pants
- Drill not Saw
- Skirt not Dress
For more information on the eBay Keyword Spamming policy, please visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/keyword-spam.html>
Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account

privileges and account suspension.
To learn more about why eBay may remove auction-style listings, please visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/listing-ended.html>
To learn how you may ensure a successful listing in the future, visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/policies.html>
To review the eBay User Agreement, please go to:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html>
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
eBay Trust & Safety

=======================================================================

from ebay 8/26/08

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the listing you recently had
removed. Tony here again and I will be happy to assist you today.
Jim, first of all I am sorry if you received two separate messages for
your listings removal. I can assure you that it was only removed once
however and that only one violation is on your account for this listing.
With regard to your listings being removed, this action was taken
because you have accrued multiple violations of our Prohibited Items
policies. In each case, we informed you that further action may be taken
on your account, which could include the removal of all listings,
implementation of selling restrictions, or possible account suspension.
These consequences are issued on a case by case basis, and may vary
based on the severity of violation, or if a policy has been breached
multiple times. Providing these listings are not violating our policies
they may be re listed at your own convenience.
With regard to your listing it was ended for violating our Hoodia
policy, which you are quite clear on from our previous correspondence.
Although we do not prohibit the sale of Stapelia Gigantea, you did
include a photo of a Hoodia plant in the listing as well as refer to
your plant as a "Hoodia first aid plant". This creates confusion about
what exactly you are selling and raises concerns that a Hoodia plant may
be available through your listing and as such it was removed.
You may re list your Gtapelia Gigantea, but please do not use the term
"Hoodia" in the title, have a picture of a Hoodia plant or call your
plant a "Hoodia first aid plant". You may make mention to this function
in your listing, but it should not be the main selling point.
Thank you for your hopeful understanding. If you need further
assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this email and let us
know.
Sincerely,
Tony Parsons
eBay Customer Support
==========================================================================

from ebay 8/28/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing in regard to listing Hoodia Gordonii Sun Dried
Weightloss Chips.
The item you are referring to appears to be appropriate however I am not
able to give final approval until the item is listed on our site in its
final format. We appreciate the fact that you have asked before listing
your item with eBay.
It is my pleasure to assist you Jim. Thank you for choosing eBay.
Sincerely, Ralston eBay Customer Support

============================================================================

to ebay

hello Ralston so if I list the dried Hoodia chips as stated and for some reason it is not approved what action will be used as

I don't want another suspension with all my auctions removed again, couldn't you just ask me to remove it instead. The fact

that I have been given so many different reasons for the Hoodia removal and never a definite why on this issue, I did receive a

small apology for all the confusion but still received to suspensions. I'm a bit worried that you say you can't be sure until I

post it. How will it be handled if it don't get final approval. . Also I appealed my two suspensions but have not heard anything

on those matters could you let me know the time frame on them. thanks Jim

===============================================================================

from ebay 9/05/06

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:05:24 PDT
eBay sent this message to James Irwin (jiimz).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay.
Learn more: <http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html
eBay Listing Removed: Animals, Plants, and Wildlife (=PS &amp;12363 JM69509077)
Dear jiimz,
Thank you for your recent Fixed Price listing. You listed the following:
260028638272 - Find Out Where To Buy Hoodia Gordonii Sell At Profit
Unfortunately, eBay removed your Fixed Price listing. All fees related to this listing have been credited to your account.

We also notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has
been canceled.
The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Animals, Plants, and Wildlife policy. The sale of this item may also

be prohibited by law.
The sale of live animals and wildlife products may be prohibited by law, regulated, or harmful to the Community. For this

reason, eBay allows the sale of live animals and wildlife products only under very specific, limited conditions.
eBay doesn't allow members to sell any endangered or protected species or any parts of them.
For more information on the eBay Animals, Plants, and Wildlife policy, please visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/wildlife.html>
Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account

privileges and account suspension.
To review eBay's list of Prohibited, Questionable, and Infringing items, please visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html>
To learn more about why eBay may remove Fixed Price listings, please go to:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/listing-ended.html>
To review the eBay User Agreement, visit:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html>
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely, eBay Trust & Safety

=============================================================================

from ebay 9/06/06
Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to listing Hoodia products.
We regret any confusion, however, the reason we must be cautious when
giving approvals for items is often times the final listing will contain
information not provided in the email message seeking clarification.
Hoodia products are generally permitted. eBay prohibits the sale of
Hoodia plants, however, lawfully manufactured products are permitted. If
your item fits this description, please feel free to list it.
Thanks again, if you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to
reply to this email and let us know.
Sincerely, Jens eBay Trust & Safety
================================================================================

to ebay 9/07/06

hello again my question wasnt answered about whether you could just ask me to remove the the item if you dont aprove rather

than removing it and giveing me another selling restriction thanks jim

========================================================================================

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay with regard to your 1 day selling restriction
and our Hoodia policies. Tony here again and I will be happy to explain
this situation today.
I have taken the time to review your listing and have found that it was
ended correctly.
Jim, your listing was not removed twice, you did receive two separate
notices however. One of them was for your specific listing (item number
260028638272) and the other one was because we removed the rest of your
listings due to this item being removed. Our systems are working fine
and I can assure you that you were meant to receive these notices.
Furthermore, you have not been suspended. Your listings were recently
removed because you have accrued multiple violations of our Prohibited
Items policies. In each case, we informed you that further action may be
taken on your account, which could include the removal of all listings,
implementation of selling restrictions, or possible account suspension.
These consequences are issued on a case by case basis, and may vary
based on the severity of violation, or if a policy has been breached
multiple times. In addition to this you received a 1 day selling
restriction which has not been completed. Thank you for your patients.
Jim, we have already explained our policies on Hoodia to you many times.
Regardless of what Cities has the plant listed as, you cannot sell it on
eBay.
With regard to your specific listing, you were making information
available to be able to purchase Hoodia. We consider this the same as
selling Hoodia, as it will still lead the sale of the product in the
end.
Jim, you have a long and outstanding account with us and you are a
valued member of this community. If you want my advice, I would advise
you to let this whole Hoodia issue go and concentrate on your other
plants for sale. You are very close to being suspended for a long period
of time and we certainly do not want that action to happen to one of our
best and most valued members.
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely, Tony Parsons

=============================================================================

to ebay 9/07/06

hello since im close to suspension is it possible to get a list of any other prohibited plants or fauna so i can be aware of them.

thanks jim

=====================================================================================

fron ebay 9/07/06

Dear eBay Member,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to why eBay removes auctions
instead of asking the seller to do so.
When we take action against an individual account, we do so as an effort
to protect the eBay Community from activities that go against eBay
policies.
When a listing violation occurs, we prefer to communicate with the
member first. However, in some cases, ending the listing immediately is
a more appropriate course of action.
In addition, auctions which are prohibited items or may contain
information or images inappropriate for eBay must be deleted from the
system. The seller can end the auction, but the auction information
remains hosted on the site. eBay must administratively remove the item
to delete the auction listing.
We value you as a responsible member of the eBay Community.
Nevertheless, we must enforce this policy--even in your case--in order
to maintain fair and consistent guidelines for all of our members. We
appreciate your understanding.
To learn more about eBay listing guidelines, go to:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html>
I appreciate the time you have taken to write to us and for your
contribution to eBay.
Sincerely, Shea eBay Customer Support

===============================================================================

from ebay 9/08/06

Dear Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to our listing policies regarding
plants. My name is Qubert and I'd be happy to explain.
I can see how this process may seem a little frustrating, and I'd like
to be able to clear things up for you today.
Jim, I am unable to provide you with a list of flora that is banned, and
I apologize for that. Since our policies are always being updated, we
cannot possibly ensure that one member's list would be the same as
another's.
My suggestion to you would be that you send us an email if there is a
plant that you wish to sell, and we can look into its status according
to our policies. This way, you can find out before it would ever be on
the site and there is no chance of you receiving a strike. We do not
generally preapprove listings per se, but can provide information that
would help you list items within our guidelines.
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely, Qubert eBay Customer Support

=========================================================================

to ebay 9/09/06

hello qubert

thanks for the info heres a plant i would like to list that is a Euphorbia bupleurifolia Jacq. CITES App II Euphorbiaceae

thanks in advance jim